Message-ID: <7145401.1075857924745.JavaMail.evans@thyme> Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:19:00 -0700 (PDT) From: owner-nyiso_tech_exchange@lists.thebiz.net To: nyiso_dltf@lists.nyiso.com, dewitt@nycap.rr.com, jdprunkl@earthlink.net Subject: RE: 150 mW DEC Cap for "Emergency Exempt" for EDRP Cc: nyiso_tech_exchange@global2000.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bcc: nyiso_tech_exchange@global2000.net X-From: owner-nyiso_tech_exchange@lists.thebiz.net X-To: "PRLWG" , "'Larry DeWitt: PACE'" , "jdprunkl" X-cc: "Tech Team EMail List," X-bcc: X-Folder: \Larry_Campbell_Jun2001\Notes Folders\Notes inbox X-Origin: Campbell-L X-FileName: lcampbel.nsf "Mark Younger" writes to the NYISO_TECH_EXCHANGE Discussion List: If only 150 MW can be called on when the NYISO needs them then no more than 150 MW should be allowed to qualify as ICAP providers. The purpose of ICAP is to assure that the NYISO has capacity when it needs it. "Having" the capacity and then not being allowed to use it makes the capacity worthless. Resources that cannot be called upon are do not add to system security. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nyiso_dltf@lists.nyiso.com [mailto:owner-nyiso_dltf@lists.nyiso.com] On Behalf Of jdprunkl Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 3:55 PM To: 'Larry DeWitt: PACE'; PRLWG Subject: RE: 150 mW DEC Cap for "Emergency Exempt" for EDRP Larry: A couple of comments: 1. I recommend that the 150 MW limit be managed by NYISO Operations. They are going to understand the problems in real time and should have complete authority of which generators get run based on the situation. Trying to fairly rotate which units get called at this late date, given the hours of operation are completely unknown would be a waste of time, in my opinion. 2. We all should be very grateful that the DEC has taken the action they have on expanding the exempt generator definition. If people are not happy with the 150MW cap then they should get a registration or state facility permit and notify the ISO that the their site is not to be counted in the 150 MW cap calculation. 3. Not paying full ICAP for these resources would be a disaster. If we want to kill the emergency program, this is the best way to do it. Again, calling of generators should be based on the NYISO Operations assessment of the emergency situation. A special case resource generator standing ready to serve, even if DEC has placed some limits on the number of MW running at one time, should not be penalized by this cap. We may find situations where some of the SCR "exempt" generators called can not start or limit their generation hours for some reason. In this case we need as many SCR resources ready to fill the void as possible. Limit payments really hurts the credibility and effectiveness of the programs we have all worked so hard to develop. 4. I do not think the EDRP manuals need to say anything on this subject. This should strictly be an internal NYISO operation matter on which generators get called in each zone. If the Operations manual needs to be updated to reflect the 150 MW exempt generator class of EDRP generators lets do it here not in the EDRP manual. Looking forward to Monday's discussion. Have a great weekend. Best Regards, John D. Prunkl MetroGen LLC 205-343-1977 w 217-454-0295 cell 509-356-9367 fax jdprunkl@metrogen.com www.metrogen.com -----Original Message----- From: Larry DeWitt: PACE [SMTP:dewitt@nycap.rr.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:43 PM To: PRLWG Subject: 150 mW DEC Cap for "Emergency Exempt" for EDRP Colleagues, This is a "heads up" that there are several issues we will need to look at on Monday with respect to the new NYS DEC expanded definition of "emergency exempt" when participating in the EDRP. The problems needing solving that I am aware of so far concern the 150 mW cap that DEC placed on the ISO's call for emergency customer generation. Our understanding is that more than that amount can be signed up for the program--but only 150 mWs can be called at any one time. Some have suggested that the DEC does not have the right or power to regulate the NYISO. I don't know. But I do know that DEC would revoke this in heart-beat if they thought we were going to ignore it--especially after all these different parties, including the ISO and the self-generation developers, bargained with NYS DEC to do what they have done. Also, the individual participating customers would be more than some upset if they found out that DEC was revoking their emergency exempt status because they were deemed to have been the ones who were over the 150 mW limit in an emergency call. There are two problems that I have seen, both related to enrolling more than 150 mWs of emergency exempt EDRP participants. First, if there is more than 150 mWs in the region being called, we need to determine a method for who gets called--it could rotate in an equitable fashion. But our manual should probably speak to this. The other problem is that we probably shouldn't be paying full ICAP to 300 mWs of emergency exempt EDRP participants if we know that no more than half of them can respond to any ICAP call. We might derate them in percentage to the subscription over the 150 mWs. Or some other system. My purpose here is to alert you to the issue and suggest that we want to come up with a solution on Monday. I spoke with Mollie Lampi about it and hope the ISO has a chance to work on it today. We want all EDRP and DADRP manual matters to go before the BIC on May 24th. Have a great weekend and thanks for all of the creative thinking and constructive participation on getting these programs as right as we can as quickly as we can! Larry << File: ATT00000.htm >>